INTERVIEW: ‘Goodbye’ Tweets and Tour Talk with Ratboys

By Jackie Swisshelm

Julia Steiner and Dave Sagan are Ratboys, from Chicago. If you’ve ever wondered what ‘post-country’ music is, they make it. For just two people making music together, their sound is big. Their lyrics are likewise all-encompassing, spinning memories that sometimes tell a story, somehow exuding a feeling of intimacy. In their songs, Steiner pairs dreamy vocals (think Soccer Mommy) with steel guitar samples and the occasional country drum beats.

For a year and a half, they toured extensively after the release of their first LP, AOID, in 2015 and before sitting down to make their 2017 release, GN. As of Tuesday, they headed out on tour again for three months, holed up with additional bandmates Sean Neumann and Marcus Nuccio. As they were departing Chicago, we chatted with them about past tours, baguettes, and the importance of saying goodbye. Read our interview below.

AP: I was looking at some photos and saw that you guys had toured internationally. Can you tell me how that experience felt?

JS: It’s pretty different honestly than touring in the States. In Europe it’s especially different because you have to rent a vehicle and rent all your equipment. You can’t really bring anything with you so the general planning of it is a little more complicated because you have to acquire all that stuff…

It’s nice because in Europe there’s a different standard for hospitality, at least in the DIY world. We haven’t done any international touring that’s through an agency, so I can’t really speak to that. But the experiences we’ve had have been amazing, mainly because people in Europe, when they invite you to sleep in their home, they make you food. Even in a lot of the venues, they have apartments in the venues where you can sleep, and they’ll make you dinner. It’s sweet. It’s few and far between, places like that in the States, whereas in Europe, it seems a bit more normal, which is really cool. It’s just like a total sensory overload when you get to play music in another country or another continent, where they don’t speak English. It’s so exciting when you get to meet people you never would have otherwise probably gotten to meet. We feel super, super lucky that we’ve gotten to do that. Hopefully we’ll get to do it again.

AP: Hopefully! Had you travelled internationally before?

JS: Yeah, Dave and I both did a year of our college in Europe. He was in Rome, and I was in Dublin.

AP: I love Rome! I lived in Sicily for three years and got to travel. It was fun living there, but I can’t really imagine touring there with a band.

JS: Sure. It’s definitely like a traveling circus. In a good way, though. Yeah, we haven’t played [in Rome]. I haven’t made it that far south in Italy, yet. Someday, hopefully. It’s such a beautiful place.

I will say, too, Dave has a lot of extended family in Poland. And so, when we got to play there, a bunch of his family came out and we stayed with his aunt. It’s really nice to get to reconnect with family that way, because they live really far away. Also he was translating for us and stuff. It was great.

AP: What’s your go-to pit-stop snack when you’re on tour?

JS: Oh, man. I really like bananas, and apples, and probably Sour Patch Kids.

AP: What about when you’re internationally touring?

JS: Oh, good question. Probably different types of bread internationally are like, very exciting to try. In Europe, especially, we got to go to the grocery store and get baguettes all over the place. And all sorts of different types of things. That’s probably my favorite thing. Dave and I both, on the side when we’re not touring, to make some extra cash we do this grocery delivery business. And so I’m just a total nerd about like going to grocery stores around the world and around the U.S. too, because they’re so diverse. So yeah, it’s fun to see what like how a country feeds its people.

AP: That’s not a hobby that I’ve heard before.

JS: It’s pretty niche.

AP: What do you look for in a grocery store?

JS:  Well, I mean a lot of grocery stores, nowadays especially, in the US have prepared foods, you know? Like a hot bar and a lot of cool like store-brand stuff. I know Wegmans has a crazy candy wall. And Wegmans is in the Northeast, so I never really get to go there. It’s exciting.

AP: Oh, get ready. We have them.

JS: But yeah, it’s just fun to see the different little specialty offerings. Because everywhere is gonna have Kraft Mac & Cheese or peanut butter or whatever, but it’s cool to see different local things for sale.

 

AP: Good point. I’m going to ask about music stuff now. Can you talk about what sonically inspired your last album, GN?

JS: For sure. I mean, I think *laughs*. We recorded that so long ago, I’m just trying to remember. Well, I will say that when we recorded our first ever album, AOID, I had just bought my electric guitar and amp, like, two weeks before we started. And I had never played a show with that equipment. I was pretty new to it, to say the least. So, I didn’t really have any sort of experience in dialing-in sounds with the electric guitar and stuff. And so in between recording that, in 2014-2015, and then recording GN in early 2017, I played a ton of shows with my equipment and became way more comfortable on the electric guitar. So I’d say that confidence was huge. I don’t know if it was an influence on the songs at all, but it definitely influenced how everything ended up sounding on the recordings, because I felt more intentional about how the recordings ended up sounding, at least my part.

That collection of songs is kind of interesting to me, because a lot of them are old ideas that I kind of rehabbed, just like, songs that I had written in high school, but never really got the lyrics right or never really finished the idea. But then, Dave and I ended up revisiting them and reworking them. So, it’s hard to pinpoint one specific idea or inspiration really, because a lot of the songs were from very different time periods. I will say going forward, it’s exciting to me to kind of get away from that. The record that we just finished making is almost there. And the one that we’re working on now is definitely going to be all from one time. So, I think it’ll be more cohesive in that way, as far as all the songs being written within a certain month or two months.

 

AP: So, on that note, I was going to ask if you’re currently writing music. It sounds like you are?

JS: Yeah, yeah. We recorded an album recently that we are still figuring out the details of when it’s going to come out. Hopefully later this year. It’s weird. We have to plan these things so far in advance and plan around other people’s schedules. But we’re working on that right now. And then in the meantime, we just, you know, we like to write songs. So we’ve just been working on new ones, too.

It’s weird because the new one is not even out yet, but it’s fun to think about the next thing. We’ve just been working on that at home.

 

AP: Can you speak to what’s inspiring this next record that you haven’t yet recorded?

JS: It’s hard to say. We have like three songs done for it. I have just certain little ideas in my head. I’ve listened to a lot of Land of Talk and I want to make a song that honors them. I want to do a short pop song. So let’s do that. And, I don’t know, it’s interesting. It’s just whatever comes out. We don’t really have like an overarching theme or anything. At some point, I really want to do a concept album about animals, but I don’t think we have enough yet for that. So we have two, but eventually that would be cool. Probably not for this one, but maybe for the fifth one.

AP: I’d love to hear that! Did you say Land of Talk?

JS: Yeah, they’re one my favorite bands. I’m still pinching myself that they came back. I was pretty convinced that she wasn’t gonna come back, but I’m so glad she did. She’s one of my favorite songwriters for sure. For like, ten years now.

AP: That’s awesome. I read some past interviews where you speak to the themes on your 2017 record. One of them was saying goodbye. So my next question is, what do you think is so hard about saying goodbye?

JS: I just tweeted about this, saying goodbye to all my neighbors in Animal Crossing this morning *laughs*. I try not to let myself get too dark about it, because it can be really limiting and counterproductive to worry too much about it. But it’s tough to say goodbye, because you never truly know for sure that you’ll get to see somebody again. Or, at the very least, you don’t know when you might see them again. It’s just a very emotional, turbulent experience sometimes, even if you try to tamp all that paranoia down and just live your life. I think it’s especially, maybe not tough, but resonant for me to think about that because I have three younger siblings, so I love a lot and they all live all over the place, like across the country. My sister lives in Mexico right now. It’s hard because I really only get to see my immediate family all together once a year. I get Christmas, if we’re lucky. And that comes from a place of massive privilege. We’ve all been able to leave our hometown and do what we want to do in different places. But it’s a little different from someone who lives in the same city with all their family and sees them every day. And it’s the same with tour. A lot of my friends I don’t see very often because we’re gone a lot. So when you say goodbye, you gotta make it count.

It’s weird; [Dave and I] didn’t really have that in mind when we wrote [those songs]. It just kind of comes out sometimes, like whatever’s in the back of your mind or in bottom of your heart. It just surfaces when you’re making up stuff.

AP: Yeah, and then looking back you’re like “Oh, shit.”

JS: Right! It’s weird, on this album that we just finished recording, in every song Marcus, our drummer, pointed this out to me. He’s like, “You talked about waking up a lot. Like, in every song. There’s at least one line about waking up in the morning.” I was like, that is a coincidence. Or maybe not, but it wasn’t on purpose. I don’t know. I have no idea what that means. I’m trying to figure it out. I guess I just like sleeping or dreaming or whatever. But it’s funny how there are certain patterns that show themselves in very obvious yet strange ways.

AP: When did you start writing music?

JS: Well, I started playing guitar when I was thirteen and I started creating little songs right away. I guess it was eighth grade. I would make up really ridiculous songs about my friends. I never was really involved in much drama growing up, but all my friends were and I would just kind of help them and also laugh with them about it. And so most of the songs were about that kind of stuff. But I started really enjoying it writing songs more for myself when I was like fifteen or sixteen; getting a little more moody, teen vibe.

AP: Bless. What kind of music were you into at age fifteen?

JS: Oh man, well I really liked Rogue Wave, that indie guy. He’s amazing. And I really liked Guster. I just saw them again last week.

AP: Guster was one of my first concerts!

JS: That was my first concert when I was thirteen! All through high school, I loved them. I still love them. I just love them because they have built such an amazing career and they don’t take themselves too seriously. They have so much fun. That’s my goal. The show last week was insane. Everyone was going nuts. Lots of antics. I love that stuff. But I was into all sorts of different stuff. I’m a huge Sufjan Stevens fan. I wasn’t into too much heavy music until I met Dave. And then we showed each other a bunch of bands and broadened our horizons.

AP: So when did you guys meet?

JS: We met on the first day of college my freshman year, during freshman orientation, which is a super chaotic, strange process at Notre Dame, where we went to school. I’m sure it is everywhere but there especially, because all the dorms are gender segregated. So it’s just a bunch of groups of boys looking over at groups of girls like ten feet apart, not knowing how to talk to each other. It’s very strange. It was weird. We like met right away though, and realized we’re into the same stuff, and should just stick together and be friends.

 

AP: That’s cute. What’s changed about how you write music, or even, think about lyrics as you age?

JS: I’ve kind of accepted the fact that it takes me a long time. Sometimes I’ll get lucky and it’ll all come together very quickly. That is like super rare, but super satisfying. I kind of used to wait for that to happen or rely on that. But now, if I have a musical idea, I let it sit, especially on tour. Then I try to write words over time. I don’t need to do it all in one day. And honestly, it’s good to revise sometimes; to look back and change things after a while. I’m just more open to being gradual with it.

AP: Yeah, get some perspective with time?

JS: Yeah, baby! It’s wise. Yes.

AP: All right. So, last question: Can you tell me some Chicago, or Midwest, or local bands that are on your radar right now?

JS: Oh. My. God, yes. Chicago has so many great bands. I could probably just answer with that. I just recently saw Palehound, from Boston, who was in town.

AP: Love!

JS: Yeah, they’re not who I’m talking about, but they’re one of my favorite bands. They played an awesome basement show with this band, Not For You, who’s from Chicago. They are amazing. One of the most talented— and I don’t mean this in any sort of sarcastic way. This woman screams so beautifully. I just had no idea. She has such an instrument with her voice. It’s really cool. They just put out tape, and I’ve been listening to that a lot. Lala Lala has been like touring a ton and they’re amazing. They are awesome people and great musicians. They’re not on Sooper Records, but they’re affiliated with them. And that label is amazing. They put out tons of great music. Nnamdi Ogbonnaya, who’s in a bunch of bands here in town, he co-runs that label, they just put out a song but by this artist named KAINA, who’s a kind of R&B, very soulful, curious songwriter. She’s awesome. And she also plays in Nnamdi and Sen Morimoto’s band. That whole collective group— I’m just so psyched to be living in the same city as them. It’s pretty impressive. They keep changing their sound and keep touring. I’m so excited because a lot of people who are amazing musicians don’t often get out of the city, which is fine because it’s a great place to live. There’s so much here to do and people to play with so there’s not always a ton of motivation to leave. But they’re doing it and touring, and I hope that everyone will get to hear it soon.

AP: Anything else you want readers to know?

JS: Well, I’m so excited we get to come to Boston twice! It’s going to be absolutely ridiculous. We’ve never played in a room this big. It’s Royale. It’s gonna be nuts. We feel insanely fortunate to be a part of this tour. We’re gonna play some new songs. So I’m very excited for that.

Ratboys open for the sold out PUP show today at the Royale, and a second show on May 18 (for which a few tickets just opened up).